tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post4857868078029370181..comments2023-10-20T08:56:14.314+01:00Comments on Stroppy Author: A life in publishing: Books without lumps. Or, Are some books trash?Stroppy Authorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16560035800075465845noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-11858673962923995312014-05-07T17:56:13.042+01:002014-05-07T17:56:13.042+01:00I like the analogy with learning to eat food - bet...I like the analogy with learning to eat food - better than the junk food versus vegetables one! But some of these formulaic simple 'learner' books are better written than others, and some, as Emma said, amount to acts of unnatural cruelty perpetrated on the adults forced to read them!C.J.Busbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12288574235370421625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-58156303198976642652014-05-05T22:15:37.359+01:002014-05-05T22:15:37.359+01:00My gripe is really with adult trash, I suppose - I...My gripe is really with adult trash, I suppose - I'm all for letting kids read at their own pace.Becca McCallumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09339982441409936532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-62198838222767274192014-05-05T19:16:11.810+01:002014-05-05T19:16:11.810+01:00Thank you, Becca. I think there are extra forces a...Thank you, Becca. I think there are extra forces at work for new readers, though - for us, reading isn't an effort so the junk food analogy stands up better. But for kids who are just mastering reading, including all the gettings to grips with how plot and characters work, something quite simple need not be bad.Stroppy Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560035800075465845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-65069606052565628572014-05-05T18:21:25.007+01:002014-05-05T18:21:25.007+01:00I like the distinctions between different kinds of...I like the distinctions between different kinds of trash! I do think that there are some books that should be pulped and made into something useful, like loo roll. Wow, didn't think I felt that strongly. Then there are the books that are bad for you in the way that sweeties are bad for you, or fast food. I read really quickly, so it's the perfect analogy for me - I pick up those books because I'm bored, or someone leaves them lying around. I flick my way through them, not caring about character or dialogue, or even description - purely to find out what happens. Afterwards I feel as bad as if I'd eaten a chocolate bar, or a cheap burger: bloated and slightly sick. And annoyed for wasting precious minutes of my life reading trash. Then there are the 'proper' books, books that I want to read over and over, books that I will pick up, re-read a passage or two, smile, and feel better, or empowered, or informed. Becca McCallumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09339982441409936532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-61423064380988160052014-04-27T09:25:29.802+01:002014-04-27T09:25:29.802+01:00Crikey, these lecturers are long-standing and made...Crikey, these lecturers are long-standing and made of strong stuff! She must've been there for well over 25 years. Poor woman took me back to Scotland once (where I am originally from) - and I was a typical dodgy (Scottish) student... not paying for petrol. I still feel guilty about that at times!!! Not even sure how that eventuality came about... I usually took the bus or train home!!!Pennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10441354471067727433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-58934216432415175352014-04-27T09:19:52.853+01:002014-04-27T09:19:52.853+01:00The Mill is till there. And Morag's retirement...The Mill is till there. And Morag's retirement dinner was last term - this is her last year. But she is well - I last saw her about two months ago.Stroppy Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560035800075465845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-44889504961958500352014-04-27T09:15:56.784+01:002014-04-27T09:15:56.784+01:00Yes Homerton. I graduated in 1991. I remember th...Yes Homerton. I graduated in 1991. I remember the name Elizabeth Brewer, but can't picture her. I worked with Morag Styles and Victor Watson during a fabulous Children's Lit course. Actually, Victor and I went head to head a bit during my final teaching practice!!! I thought he was a fabulous children's lit lecturer, but not a great help as a teaching practice advisor!! Funnily enough, I have been doing a few library papers and I came across a reading by him! It brought back some memories!<br />Pleased to hear that Heffers is still there... loved loved loved that place! One day I will get back... just have to save up as there are 4 of us to pay for these days to do the trip!<br />Is The Mill pub still there?Pennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10441354471067727433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-33225657457564796552014-04-27T09:04:07.519+01:002014-04-27T09:04:07.519+01:00You trained in Cambridge? At Homerton? I taught at...You trained in Cambridge? At Homerton? I taught at Homerton occasionally in the 80s and 90s but I don't think our paths crossed. For Elizabeth Brewer and Victor Watson. He is still there, though retired; she sadly died a few years ago. <br /><br />Do visit when you can :-) Heffers Children's Bookshop is no longer a separate shop, but still has its own devoted area behind the main shop and is still delightful!Stroppy Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560035800075465845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-38482079162482593312014-04-27T08:53:36.297+01:002014-04-27T08:53:36.297+01:00Now - at the risk of sounding like a dodgy stalker...Now - at the risk of sounding like a dodgy stalker, I see that you are in Cambridge. I trained as a teacher there in the late 80s/early 90s and have only been back once since. I loved it there and one day I will get back (I live in NZ now, so not such an easy task... although I hear your sigh of relief as you realise that I am definitely not a stalker!!!) Heffers CHildren's Bookshop was my absolute favourite... is it still there? <br />We have a couple of your books in our kiwi library (Revolting Records and 1001 Horrible Facts)... but I am going to be keeping my eyes open for more! (Sadly I am not the budget holder and so am not the boss!!!) Pennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10441354471067727433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-19738923043445629182014-04-27T08:28:01.094+01:002014-04-27T08:28:01.094+01:00Awwwww Stroppy, you have made my day. There are s...Awwwww Stroppy, you have made my day. There are some who think I am NOT ideal because of my opinions, but I do stand by this one!! Pennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10441354471067727433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-91153787585671409842014-04-27T08:02:53.740+01:002014-04-27T08:02:53.740+01:00I agree, Penny. You sound like the ideal librarian...I agree, Penny. You sound like the ideal librarian :-)Stroppy Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560035800075465845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-27796360695751880682014-04-26T23:06:59.542+01:002014-04-26T23:06:59.542+01:00Fabulous blog post...
When I talk to the kids I wo...Fabulous blog post...<br />When I talk to the kids I work with I liken the so-called 'trash' to McDonalds... easy, predictable and necessary at times. Then I compare those to Masterchef reads... complex, unpredictable, challenging and potentially life-changing. There ain't nothing wrong with McDonalds, AS LONG AS you also have a go at the Masterchef fayre somewhere along the line. I feel it is my job as a librarian to encourage and promote the Masterchef books, as McDonalds will sell itself!Pennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10441354471067727433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-71491868622597387182014-04-25T11:32:42.292+01:002014-04-25T11:32:42.292+01:00Well said, Stroppy & all comments.
As one who&...Well said, Stroppy & all comments.<br />As one who's written-to-order occasionally, under pressure to feed life's demanding maw, etc., I identify big-time. A 'nom de plume' for such is 'de rigueur,' even wise!<br />The word 'trash' conjures up disposable pulp fiction - each to his / her own. We're grown-ups, we can choose.<br />But books for children? H'm. There IS a lot of rubbish out there, e.g., too many with frantic cartoon-y style illustrations and no reflections of real life. They have their place - but ... <br /><br />Your 'fairy unicorn princess' reminds me of reading Andrew Lang & Co when I was young, books with exquisite line drawings and Rackham colour plates. Some of the tales are def. not all sweetness and light, and not everyone lives happily ever after, either. <br />If you think of what a child reads in its formative years, surely that which is laid down in the mind and imagination as a base layer informs much of what comes later, whether reader or writer? JANE-ANNE SHAWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16937338388081839103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-4201739299295718102014-04-25T01:40:44.693+01:002014-04-25T01:40:44.693+01:00Well said, Adele! :-) And I must agree about Trist...Well said, Adele! :-) And I must agree about Tristram Shandy, that piece of classic stream-of-consciousness nonsense! It took me a while to work it out, then I sat back and giggled. <br /><br />Nice post, Stroppy! <br /><br />I'd like to add that adults judging children's books for competition can be snobbish in their choices. They go for "beautiful writing" over story, characters you can care about and being a pleasure to read; I can actually remember one of these judges saying that a book was readable, enjoyable and would appeal to kids, but those weren't among their criteria! Some writers my students find dull win prizes automatically when they publish a new book, just because of their "beautiful writing."<br />Sue Bursztynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09362273418897882971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-16941226990354404862014-04-24T21:44:44.901+01:002014-04-24T21:44:44.901+01:00Agree with Anne but popping in to say that neither...Agree with Anne but popping in to say that neither John Grisham nor Agatha Christie is trash. adelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15826710558292792068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-78179148938279307242014-04-24T15:20:13.324+01:002014-04-24T15:20:13.324+01:00Thanks for this Stroppy! Very interesting. I don&#...Thanks for this Stroppy! Very interesting. I don't have much to add that I haven't already said on the ABBA blog post looooong string of comments, apart from the fact that I respectfully disagree with the connection between 'reading for pleasure' and 'easy (/trashy) reading' - which nonetheless many, many people articulated, so I might be wrong. Clémentine Beauvaishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03115567199751033932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-60781215778404765772014-04-24T14:01:34.086+01:002014-04-24T14:01:34.086+01:00I'm inclined to think if people love reading i...I'm inclined to think if people love reading it, then it's not trash. There's plenty of literary authors who do nothing for me (Ian McEwan for example) but I'm happy to accept that they do something for other people, and for that matter, there are literary authors I love that leave many other people cold. Equally, a "good" John Grisham thriller or Agatha Christie is sometimes exactly what I (and many others) want to read. I think children should have the same choices in this respect, at least in their own free time. <br /><br />The only children's books I'd really define as trash are those "tie-ins" for very young children where I feel that the company is so complacent about pulling the child in through character recognition, that they haven't taken any trouble with the story at all. Some of these are so dismal to read aloud that they are an act of cruelty to the poor parent, even if the child is happy just to recognise the character. But I'm sure you're not responsible for any of those, Stroppy! (And even then it would surely be going too far to say they do actual harm.)Emma Barneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02718171070716804800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-20930513260095478122014-04-24T09:38:00.635+01:002014-04-24T09:38:00.635+01:00"besmirches the good name of trash" :-)"besmirches the good name of trash" :-)Stroppy Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560035800075465845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-38283423131161146722014-04-24T09:32:07.016+01:002014-04-24T09:32:07.016+01:00Oh, I agree - that kind of thing besmirches the go...Oh, I agree - that kind of thing besmirches the good name of trash! But I think it's a different axis - there's plenty of "fine writing" that does that too, usually more dangerously because more attractively and insidiously.Catherine Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17693526864905868829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-71410561321551344312014-04-24T09:29:52.616+01:002014-04-24T09:29:52.616+01:00Well, I think there is toxic trash and trash. For ...Well, I think there is toxic trash and trash. For instance, anything that belittles or undermines people of one gender/race/sexuality/level of ability/etc is toxic trash and I would never defend that. So I suppose that's a trash and a trash-trash distinction :-)Stroppy Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560035800075465845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-26987378913529260062014-04-24T09:26:15.913+01:002014-04-24T09:26:15.913+01:00They'd be missing a real treat with Tristram S...They'd be missing a real treat with Tristram Shandy! <br /><br />Thanks for returning to this. As I was reading your post I noticed myself having to fight an urge to propose a distinction between "good" trash and, er, trash trash (and so ad infinitum). This says more about me than it does about trash, probably.Catherine Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17693526864905868829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2363444567124084776.post-83370357537773304812014-04-24T09:25:57.071+01:002014-04-24T09:25:57.071+01:00As a fellow secret writer of 'trash' writt...As a fellow secret writer of 'trash' written to order, with a big series bible in front of me (to pay the bills) - and a writer of lumpier books, fiction and nf - I agree wholeheartedly :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15271178911143382125noreply@blogger.com